The Radio 4 Today programme is losing a “battle to stay relevant”, insiders fear as podcasts and talk radio rivals steal the flagship show’s audience.
Today has lost 800,000 listeners in the past year – 12 per cent of its total – with its audience falling to 5.8 million, the latest Rajars figures show.
Listening has slid from a 2017 peak, when the election of Donald Trump and the fallout from Brexit drove the agenda-setting show to a record audience of 7.5 million.
Today’s audience is being squeezed by speech rivals like LBC’s Nick Ferrari breakfast show, Times Radio and TalkRADIO, which are not bound by the BBC’s impartiality strictures.
Commuters who want news and analysis are also choosing to listen to podcasts like Emily Maitlis’s The News Agents during the morning instead of live radio.
Insiders said Today is trying to expand its audience by running an increasing number of lighter features – Thursday’s edition gave Radio 2 presenter Rylan Clark a platform to promote his new BBC podcast about modern masculinity and also featured an interview with music legend Sting.
Amol Rajan, who joined the Today line-up in 2021, brought a new informality to the programme’s presentation, which executives hoped would appeal to younger listeners.
One insider said: “Today is facing a real battle to stay relevant. It sounds awkward when it tries to be ‘modern’, but a big issue is that the 8.10am interview, traditionally the main event, is no longer a must-listen.”
Instead of appearing exclusively on Today, ministers now begin the daily media round with interviews on breakfast TV shows and also talk to commercial rivals.
There is said to be rivalry between Today presenters, which include Nick Robinson, Mishal Husain and Justin Webb, over who lands the biggest set-piece interviews.
The Today approach to debate has become outdated, believes Alastair Campbell, whose The Rest Is Politics podcast with former Tory MP Rory Stewart targets Radio 4 listeners with a more discursive alternative. “People do seem to have tired of the ‘let’s get two people on and debate something and try to get them to shout at each other’ approach,” he said.
A BBC spokesperson said: “Millions of listeners tune into the Today programme each morning to hear trusted, in depth reporting and agenda setting interviews. Audience figures fluctuate for many reasons, particularly for news programmes, where significant stories and events in the UK and around the world will have an impact.”
The BBC also said that Today’s figures often fluctuate depending on news events and noted that the Rajar survey has used a different counting methodology since 2021, making historical comparisons less reliable.
Long-term listening trends could hit Today‘s audience. This week’s Rajar figures found that all radio listening among those aged 65+ is down 1.9 per cent on the year. Today needs to replenish its older listeners with a younger audience, which has little loyalty to scheduled radio.
Other BBC figures defended Today. One news figure said: “It has to evolve, but it’s still the gold standard. When there is a huge political story, that’s the in-depth interview people want to hear. The numbers reflect a general fall in live listening to Radio 4. People listen back to Today as podcast too.”
Charlotte Moore, BBC chief content officer, said: “With Radio 4 we’re adapting to meet the changing listening needs of our audiences and have risen to the challenge with on-demand listening for the station up by 15.1 per cent year on year with its programming dominating the most listened to charts.”
“The quality of content is world class and Radio 4 remains the home for trusted and impartial news, thought provoking current affairs, ground breaking documentaries, and boundary pushing comedy, arts and drama.”
